Can you think of any worse punishment for someone like this than to to have their entire preconceived world order (and their exulted position in it) overturned and their true position in the intellectual power chain revealed?
Nope. She listens, nods sagaciously at you, then pats you on your naive little head and send you on your way. If she s being nice. If not, then she flays you verbally and sends you on your way looking like a walking meat popsicle. But she's pragmatic. If he's 'in the club' she has just acquired a new tool to add to her kit. The tool in question having no say in the matter. Never throw away a useful tool.
Yeah, that was originally my main complaint about his behavior.
He's supposedly a scientist, yet he had no interest in interacting with her to figure out if she was standardized in any way, shape or form. For all we know, he would not have the correct data format to extract her data, even if she *had* been an android - After all, she'd been build by the russians. They may not have used anything like what he uses. I found that to be a pretty big flaw from him.
Right now, there's only one globally standardized format for android brains, so that wasn't a consideration.
From the perspective of virtually anybody in Granger's professional field, interacting with her verbally would be pointless--her protests and struggles were all programmed behavior, intended to deter casual attempts to pull her data. From that same perspective, anybody who programs that sort of behavior is either really clever or really sick in the head.
Small distinction: By Granger's perception, AIs are most definitely not "unintelligent machines". Part of the challenge in his field at this time is trying to get true AI into an android-sized body.
Stormwind has often commented how Centcomm is evil, I 150% endorse this she sets all else to shame. She builds a case why we should hate the character. ie Doc Numb-Nuts here or Centcomm character is Datachasers. >>>THEN<<< she comes in with a sweet wonderful reason why they aren't the despicable character we think. I can't wait, in Data Chasers, for the reasoning on Douchebag.
in this case - I can speak up on something.. now there are several kinds of "villans" in stories there are "black and white " villians ones that have no redemption ( and most often found in trashy novels ) and then you have villians or "people that make errors that seem evil " ) I HATE purely 2D villians or even bad guys sometimes even good people make errors in judgement due to background or experiances . the key is to show the readers what you want them to see . and then a little more as the story gets more involved. If i can make you hate a charcter in the space of a few pages then make you wonder if .." hmm okay.. maybe hes not a TOTAL lost cause ... " then ive done my job .. also there is whats called "protaganist morality " this is all viewed from Galina's perspepective and to her Granger is a bad guy. it wouldnt matter if he had 2 children and a wife he loved dearly and doted on to the audience he would still be evil .. think of all the nameless goons in movies .. ever think about those guys? the ones whos mothers and family will never see them again? that died as the hero smiled gleefully mowing them down left and right? hmmm probably not they were just "kills" on the tally of the heros latest conquest. it doesnt matter if they had loved ones or people that cared about them.. something to think about no?
As for the prince.. he has deapth but some people are beyond redemption.. feel free to hate him with a passion. :D
But look at Maxus.. or Julia .. they are both part of the "villians" so is Acantha .. but they are not evil .. :D
Oh, I fully realize the writers ploys you are employing. In Data Chasers you have essentially used the Machiavellian tactic of switching one villainess for another, Celia for Cent forcing the reader to switch thought loyalty in mid stream. Here you are allowing numb-nuts to lie by omission that he didn't know what he was locking the door to do, would fatally hurt someone. After he was told hands off completely I was merely making a snarky comment (1 per page required) about your doing so.
Maxus and Acantha aren't villains by *any* stretch of the imagination. Neither is Roma itself. Or even Kali. The villain aspect is entirely the drekhead that's currently in position to treat Roma (and, in his own mind, the world) as his personal playtoy and sandbox.
Kali (as well as the rest of the Cassians) is unfortunately bound and restricted to obeying drekhead's orders through no fault of her own, and Maxus and Acantha are both merely in unfortunate positions on his radar. All of them are overall good people (with the possible exception of some of the Cassians, we've only met Kali and Malati) and want drekhead gone, but all are stuck in unfortunate positions that would prevent them from doing anything: Kali by her built-in controls/restraints, Acantha by her inexperience and inability (so far) to gain any support that we're aware of (hidden or otherwise, other mentioned characters notwithstanding) aside from Aeneas (who himself is trapped in the situation because of the damage to his systems as well as his mistrust for humans because of the attack that *caused* the damage). And Maxus is constrained by the strategic and tactical necessity to bide his time and stay his hand, to avoid the destruction of the entire city due to drekhead's "contingencies" as well as the restrictions on Kali and the Cassians, who would be forced by those restrictions as well as orders from drekhead to protect him at all costs.
Good summation Velvet just one point when all hell broke loose in Nova Roma Kali was not Kali she was another member of the Pantheon and changed into Kali from a Centcomm type Avatar.
I think one of the best bad guy/good guy's I've read in recent times, is the emperor in the second chapter of The Meek webcomic (which no longer updates, unfortunately). Who changes character quite a lot over the 45 pages of that second chapter, and brilliantly so.
I'm not sure if I could peg him as a good guy, or a bad guy - But his depiction is fantastic, *so* many feels!
Millions dead, and nobody responsible. He has a right to be angry.
To inch around the edges of spoiler territory, Kali was always an android; she was previously called Parvati and had a close association with the Livius family.
I'm thinking now, Dragonrider that we need to blame Rose for at least PART of this evilness. She had SOMETHING to do with trying to present Granger that way and then working to redeem him now.
Having said that, if I had walked in on him with scalpel in hand over Galina I would have shot him until he was well and truly dead. And slept FINE at night. Now that he is neutralized though, unless I could PROVE he was Stalin reincarnated, or someone like that, I couldn't shoot him. Unless he threatened someone.
Having said that, I wish someone HAD shot him. I don't care for Granger at all. :-) And no, I don't want to know that he can be a human being if he TRIES. Sometimes I like things nice and simple. :-)
This particular bit of evilness? I'd give myself about 90% of the blame for it. I don't mind writing characters who are completely evil (Prince Douchebag comes to mind), but I object very strongly to characters who are two-dimensionally Stupid Evil. I prefer my evil characters to be CHARACTERS first; an actual personality gives a better basis on which to establish the "evil" tag. Being an arrogant twat doesn't mean you can't be successful in your chosen career, but when I'm writing a character, I want to know WHY they're an arrogant twat who's successful in their chosen career. I tend not to really like writing characters who are outright stupid assholes in a position of high authority and power, because there are so many of those in the real world that it depresses me.
Originally, Cent shot me a couple of pages wherein May was mouthing off to Granger, and Granger responded by SLAPPING HER ACROSS THE FACE. Why? Because . . . evil, apparently.
I've only rarely witnessed or even heard about a modern-day adult in a position of authority physically assaulting a teenager (who isn't their own kid) just for lipping off. The brief sketch we'd already established for Granger's personality indicated that he wouldn't stoop to physical violence. He's too self-confident (okay, arrogant) and aware of his own authority. All he really had to do was lean back out the door and call for Security to remove her, and they'd have done it. If he struck her, he'd have lost all control of the situation; she could have screamed and brought Security in to see her on the floor with a bloody lip, and it would have been Arrest Time with Guard Friendly for Dr. Granger (on the Happy Fun Invasive Body Cavity Search playset, no doubt).
I pretty much got on the horn with Cent immediately and presented my case in opposition to Stupid Evil Slappy Man, and we hammered out the details. So, yup, mostly my fault here.
Do the Guards also know how to play the ever so popular games of "Oops I dropped you." and "Oops I dropped you AGAIN." ?
Or maybe they're more into the "Falling down the stairs" game ? Followed by "Your Face, My Fist, BFF's forever!" and "THUD!" ?
"Oops I Dropped You" is an intramural sport on Luna; the irony of bouncing people off the floor in an environment that, if it weren't for grav-generators, would be one-sixth gravity appeals to a certain mindset.
Well, if Rose WAS going that way, Dragonrider... It would have to be Amy. I mean she is the 'trained' sexbot. And she also has a... bone(r) to pick with Granger too. At least if her earlier suggestion for punishing Granger is any indication. :-)
I would think Rose would BRAIN fu¢k Granger, highlander. Make him all too aware of things he didn't know. And then put a leash on the drooling mess that is leftover. :-)
*checks internet for sex toys, AH Here it is!! Orders Large 12" John Holmes model with industrial strapping, 1 tube of Preparation "H" for lube orders send to Amy c/o Tokyo Rose*
finally the bulb lit up in DR.Granger's mind. i'm glad. i was refraining to hate him ( even tough i couldn't condone his actions) cuz i wanted to give him a chance and i am glad it paid off.
just as i tough. misguided but no ill intention.... HELL! i also called it a few pages earlier!
the road to evil is paved with good intention! he intented to make a copy in case something happened( and in the process would have killed her) to save her .
personally i can't wait to see him join the merry band. maybe redeem himself?( or get a chance to study galina more?)
either way i can tell that i'm going to like him. like all your characters so far, there is a complexity that makes them attaching and human, so human.
he's my favorite type of character, good intention with strong vices and a touch of bad luck/timing.
And sometimes... ::BLAM, BLAM, BLAM:: ...there is grey, red and white scattered over the walls. :-)
Doubt I'll ever care for Dr. Dickhead... I've had to deal with too many people like that in real life. I wish we could thin the population of some of them.
Maybe next time he'll LISTEN when he's told to do something or not do something...
*very carefully hugs Gali*
Galina gets a lot of hugs .. this is good :D
We approve of that. :)
Yanno, I think this guy is like even less than Douchebag,
...well, ok, she *might* be nice and use small enough words for him to understand her without any doubt.
Rose is drafting him...! I hope not!
*hugs Galina carefully and hugs Amy and May*
I am glad he is staying... :D
As for why you'd bring him along on the trip ?
Well, Galina need someone to kick when she's feeling frustrated.
He's supposedly a scientist, yet he had no interest in interacting with her to figure out if she was standardized in any way, shape or form. For all we know, he would not have the correct data format to extract her data, even if she *had* been an android - After all, she'd been build by the russians. They may not have used anything like what he uses. I found that to be a pretty big flaw from him.
From the perspective of virtually anybody in Granger's professional field, interacting with her verbally would be pointless--her protests and struggles were all programmed behavior, intended to deter casual attempts to pull her data. From that same perspective, anybody who programs that sort of behavior is either really clever or really sick in the head.
Standards usually don't come about until later.
What is worse for him than being told he's less intelligent than he think he is?
That the one telling and proving it is (for him) an "unintelligent machine AI".
And wouldn't it get terribly upset if he got jailed ?
As for the prince.. he has deapth but some people are beyond redemption.. feel free to hate him with a passion. :D
But look at Maxus.. or Julia .. they are both part of the "villians" so is Acantha .. but they are not evil .. :D
Kali (as well as the rest of the Cassians) is unfortunately bound and restricted to obeying drekhead's orders through no fault of her own, and Maxus and Acantha are both merely in unfortunate positions on his radar. All of them are overall good people (with the possible exception of some of the Cassians, we've only met Kali and Malati) and want drekhead gone, but all are stuck in unfortunate positions that would prevent them from doing anything: Kali by her built-in controls/restraints, Acantha by her inexperience and inability (so far) to gain any support that we're aware of (hidden or otherwise, other mentioned characters notwithstanding) aside from Aeneas (who himself is trapped in the situation because of the damage to his systems as well as his mistrust for humans because of the attack that *caused* the damage). And Maxus is constrained by the strategic and tactical necessity to bide his time and stay his hand, to avoid the destruction of the entire city due to drekhead's "contingencies" as well as the restrictions on Kali and the Cassians, who would be forced by those restrictions as well as orders from drekhead to protect him at all costs.
I think one of the best bad guy/good guy's I've read in recent times, is the emperor in the second chapter of The Meek webcomic (which no longer updates, unfortunately). Who changes character quite a lot over the 45 pages of that second chapter, and brilliantly so.
I'm not sure if I could peg him as a good guy, or a bad guy - But his depiction is fantastic, *so* many feels!
Millions dead, and nobody responsible. He has a right to be angry.
The Feels, THE FEELS !
Having said that, if I had walked in on him with scalpel in hand over Galina I would have shot him until he was well and truly dead. And slept FINE at night. Now that he is neutralized though, unless I could PROVE he was Stalin reincarnated, or someone like that, I couldn't shoot him. Unless he threatened someone.
Having said that, I wish someone HAD shot him. I don't care for Granger at all. :-) And no, I don't want to know that he can be a human being if he TRIES. Sometimes I like things nice and simple. :-)
Originally, Cent shot me a couple of pages wherein May was mouthing off to Granger, and Granger responded by SLAPPING HER ACROSS THE FACE. Why? Because . . . evil, apparently.
I've only rarely witnessed or even heard about a modern-day adult in a position of authority physically assaulting a teenager (who isn't their own kid) just for lipping off. The brief sketch we'd already established for Granger's personality indicated that he wouldn't stoop to physical violence. He's too self-confident (okay, arrogant) and aware of his own authority. All he really had to do was lean back out the door and call for Security to remove her, and they'd have done it. If he struck her, he'd have lost all control of the situation; she could have screamed and brought Security in to see her on the floor with a bloody lip, and it would have been Arrest Time with Guard Friendly for Dr. Granger (on the Happy Fun Invasive Body Cavity Search playset, no doubt).
I pretty much got on the horn with Cent immediately and presented my case in opposition to Stupid Evil Slappy Man, and we hammered out the details. So, yup, mostly my fault here.
Do the Guards also know how to play the ever so popular games of "Oops I dropped you." and "Oops I dropped you AGAIN." ?
Or maybe they're more into the "Falling down the stairs" game ? Followed by "Your Face, My Fist, BFF's forever!" and "THUD!" ?
No Problemo - I didn't have a sanity to begin with. :)
finally the bulb lit up in DR.Granger's mind. i'm glad. i was refraining to hate him ( even tough i couldn't condone his actions) cuz i wanted to give him a chance and i am glad it paid off.
just as i tough. misguided but no ill intention.... HELL! i also called it a few pages earlier!
the road to evil is paved with good intention! he intented to make a copy in case something happened( and in the process would have killed her) to save her .
personally i can't wait to see him join the merry band. maybe redeem himself?( or get a chance to study galina more?)
either way i can tell that i'm going to like him. like all your characters so far, there is a complexity that makes them attaching and human, so human.
he's my favorite type of character, good intention with strong vices and a touch of bad luck/timing.
Doubt I'll ever care for Dr. Dickhead... I've had to deal with too many people like that in real life. I wish we could thin the population of some of them.
I thought they were just fiction??!?!?? 8o